Dr George McGavin 

Welcome to the Cure steals a charge. Episode 28.

Very exciting episode. This time it is.

It's very, very exciting because we have got an interview, haven't we?

George Gavin

and who's he?

A biology master.

He is he's.

An entomologist, author, academic television presenter, and explorer, and also a very, very lovely man, and he chatted to us earlier today. Yeah, and we are still buzzing. Can very excited by it. Say she gave straight into the interview.

Only the show on with this show.

Well hi Anton. Hi Richard, how are you good?

Yeah, very well. Thank you. How are you George?

I'm fine, I'm fine. Very nice day. Went out in the field. Just buy a house here hunting for insects and there wasn't too many actually have to say, but I did find a nice and I squash bug which is very nice. Coreus marginatus if you want to know.

We need to look that up.

Yeah.

So I guess for you you're where you're going and always looking for insects.

Yes, I have to say I mean as a biologist, if you if you don't know about insects, she can't really call yourself a mile, just really coz they make up.

The vast majority of all species on Earth. I mean, we we've we've described about a million and a half of everything, and most of those are insects, but we're pretty sure there's between 8:00 and 10 million undescribed its Axia, mainly in rainforest habitats. But of course the rate that's going, they might not survive us.

That's the problem.

Yeah, yes disappearing so quickly so we.

Going to do what we can to record more ideally protects them before that happens.

Well, I should be honest, I have thought about this for some time because when I did my degree at Edinburgh many, many years ago, I genuinely thought that we would.

Eventually name everything on that. Then we would have names for everything that we would describe the entire biological fauna and flora of the earth. I know realise that will never ever happen for many reasons. One, it's a huge job too. There are relatively few experts these days than the experts get very old and then they die. And if they don't pass on the enthusiasm and expertise to younger people.

Anton, you included here.

That is, is the key thing, so that that's partly why I resigned my Oxford job after 25 years because I didn't really feel I was.

Having any value added because all the kids that I was teaching were there because they really wanted to be there and what I wanted to do and that's why I went into TV, was to reach a wider audience of people who might not have thought about it.

Yeah, actually I was thinking with like your TV career, but I guess you went into that maybe a little bit later in your kind of career. So yeah.

I guess with that are you surprised by the opportunities you've had in the past have been out to visit and also kind of what kind of spark is that? How do you did somebody approached you or did you approach somebody?

I have been very.

Fortunate in that it sort of happened gradually, so I was about 55 when I resigned my my actual job and I've been doing films for about two years or three years by then.

And I realised that this was probably a good thing to do, so I resigned because I don't think you can do both jobs. I think you know somebody will get annoyed eventually because you weren't where you're supposed to be on you. Confirm this or awkwardly say, well, you're supposed to be doing this, and you know so. So I, I mean, I was extremely fast and I had not one dream job because Oxford for me was the dream job. I mean, that really was. And to get a second ring Ching TV.

You know it was pretty amazing and I have been very fortunate in going.

To lots of interesting places, mainly jungles, which I love.

And filming weird and wonderful animals so so I you know I.

Yeah, I've been lucky.

Yes definitely yeah. Thing is exciting for some light years and Anton to actually be able to see that. So you left your academic career, but you're still in the field in a way. So I think for maybe young people Anton it's exciting to be able to see that is not.

Just yeah, I mean I, you know I I don't think well. One of the things I say to younger audiences who writes don't realise that this could happen to them.

Is that when I was very young, I had a phenomenally bad stammer. I mean, it really was.

Appalling, and he got worse and worse until I was about 1415 when I couldn't speak at all and I virtually.

Refused to speak for about a year because there is no point. There was absolutely no point in speaking.

And if if you had sent somebody back from the future to meet my 15 year old self and say my Georgia, you're going to be a university lecturer for 25 years at Oxford. And once you finished that, you're gonna be a television presenter. I would. I couldn't have believed anything more improbable.

Yeah, it does feel like drop if he thought something like that. That's quite cool.

But it just shows that you never know what's around the corner, and I will say if if an opportunity if something comes up and you you know you fancy it, grab it with both hands because you might not get that chance again.

Yeah, good advice that definitely yeah took the opportunities when we can. I'm just getting back to you on television. I remember the first time I saw you was probably for kind of remember was when you're climbing inside the log. Is it in Borneo?

Brilliant, I love that so much and.

It certainly was.

Sorry about that because it nearly.

You know didn't happen because the the TV company BBC production are very worried about the health and safety aspects and we do have to fill in these humongous amounts of a four paper saying, you know you're dangerous. Of course, it's dangerous. We're going to a jungle.

And I saw this log which was about 100 feet long. Big Tree had fallen down complete holiday and I said, oh, great. I'm I'm going in there and they went. Oh no, you're not no, no, no, no, no I said well I am going in there. You've got about 5 minutes to get a camera before I start going in because I'm going in.

There's a hell of a scramble. While these have got a cameraman and get it all set of my just went off in the law. I didn't take a huge risk because it was straight. I can see with that or Charlie to the end. As far as I can.

See if there had.

Been something really dangerous like a big snake or something. I would have seen it long before I got to it.

That's not to say it couldn't move from their forwards that I could move backwards, but it was a fantastic experience and we found all those amazing whip spiders in the prey directly eating them. And after I got out of the log, I realised that I had been attacked by little tiny. I'm not even sure what they were even today, and the whole of my torso and body and legs were covered in little tiny bites which aged.

Where about?

But it was a great sequence and lots of folks actually thought that they had made me doing.

It is completely the other way round.

Yeah, are your camera crew like? Scared of bugs sometimes?

Camera crew are pretty hard and I have to say, I mean I respect the mall enormously. They don't wanna get bitten or stung or.

You know attacked in anyway and they very rarely do cause cause that they are behind the camera at least. But I do remember a fantastic sequence in Guyana where we were finding hunting for the world's biggest spider, which fits in my hands like that. Yeah, and I was holding it up to the camera going look at this amazing and as I held up it jumped forward at the heeded flinching.

I must say he did go through, yeah.

But as they are pretty battle hardened, all of them, yeah.

So you have to like go through dangerous stuff like Komodo Dragons as well. I remember watching something earlier. Now things like that weather is standing there.

Well, I can tell you this. No. The most dangerous thing you can do on an expedition. The most dangerous thing.

It's hire A car.

I.

Fly in a helicopter. Yes. 8090% of all accidents and all fatal accidents are the result of helicopter flights or accidents in cars.

Very rarely would you get.

Into serious jam with an animal. Unless you were very, very stupid and and you know you know held a coral snake in your in your underpants.

What you know said hi to bear Hello Boo.

Or whatever. So so yeah. I mean there are risks.

I don't like people who.

Try to antagonise the animals it it's not so much done these days but I don't like people who get too close.

Yeah, because that that is.

Asking, you know, for trouble basically.

Yeah, I guess if we leave them alone and stay interfere too much that they don't generally want to be aggressive. It's only if we disturbed them and drop them.

That because I mean that you know with with with insects, I mean you know. And there are some.

There is some incense and you don't want to be attacked by, but I I remember filling in Venezuela and I found this enormous enormous cricket. I mean, huge wicket with mandibles like like you know later I held it in the right way. Of course, because you do have to hold its Cameron examine it. Yeah, you don't hold it too tightly coz you might hurt it. But you don't want to hold it too lightly because it will escape. So you there's a fine balance.

Well, I was holding this thing and I just hadn't realised how flexible its head was going to be and it turned round anyway.

And sunk its mandibles into my thumb in into the quick at the hear the end of your thumb. Just don't, yeah.

I locked his.

Mandibles right through the flesh, and it wouldn't let go, and I was going.

Because you don't just pull it off, you know.

Rip his head off inside.

You stupid.

Eventually it did.

Release me.

Thought it was painful.

See my places story to that would be about Anton's age and I used to love playing with ants in the garden. I was fascinated by them. Kind of watching with their messin things and I picked one up and it kind of bit the bit of skin by my thumb so no call is mad as yours but I thought that too.

Yeah, nature walk in Guernsey and we had some wood ants, but there's not many would have guns he didn't think and we work. They were massive for the ones that we see and I picked one up. But no, I don't think I picked one up as I think I put my hand next or something and then it it bit my thumb and it was stuck on my thumbs like.

Please go away.

I mean it, I'm I'm always amazed at how.

How terrified some people can be about the wildlife in the UK with insects inspired? I mean there are a lot of people who are.

Scared of spiders and it's interesting because there there is no spider. There are only about 10 spiders in the UK that are big enough to break your skin with their thing, and as far as I know nobody has died but was fine about nothing. The whole history of of spiders in the UK and yet people are very alarmed by that. I think it's it's. I think it's passed down from, you know, if your mum was scared.

What is there's a likelihood that you will be as well?

You know, if you leave them alone and this is, I think the case for all species. If you if you respect him and you try and understand them, you will learn about them and you will eventually care about them. And as long as you don't annoy them, things will be fine.

Yeah, just treat them like people.

Well, it's not.

I treat insects much better than.

Yeah.

Do you have any favourite insects, like a top three or something?

Well, I mean, well I like I've got five insects that had been that that they have my name. They have been named after me by other entomologists. I suppose they are quite cool.

As there's a shield bug in a cockroach and an antenna plant offers on better when they're not, they're not terribly.

You know, interesting.

They have money, yeah?

King bees as a as a group of insects be there, probably the most important, the most interesting, and I would rate them very highly. Indeed. The most amazing insects that I've seen. Although they are pretty small are tree hoppers and treehoppers live exclusively in South America.

And they have the most bizarre shapes. The rear of the of the.

The thorax is extended into so spines and via various shapes almost you you can hardly believe them that there's a weird and it goes. It's it's all to do with the fact that if you don't look like anybody's meal, then you know you'll survive, but.

And you know, evolution has produced a whole variety of really bizarre shape, so they they are.

I think the most remarkable in terms of shape.

That's pretty much not so many insects in games. It's not quite like being in the rainforest or somewhere, but we saw a Hummingbird hawk moth afew years ago and that was amazing. It looks so much like a Hummingbird now, it's kind of hovering up flats. Beautiful, it's incredible.

Coming back home also.

A regular migrant over to the UK mainland every year is warming up.

And I've had people ringing up auction before and saying, oh, I've just seen a Hummingbird.

Thanks signifiers Hummingbird hawkmoth a nono and then I think you think it's hot, more freely and they they sort of almost can't believe that an insect can behave and look in the same but I mean in terms of size. I mean there are some insects that are larger than that. Hummingbirds, you know.

So you know at school it is very common for kids to call invertebrate animals minibeasts. Well of course there are insects that are really quite large.

And there are.

Virtually animals that are really quite small so it isn't a very useful name. I know what it means, but it's just call them invertebrates for goodness sake.

Actually, there's one thing I always think with insects be squeeze three spiders in with insects, or just as a generalisation.

No, many people do and I wondered what your yeah, what your reaction would be? Are you kind of know their their action? Is there something different or?

Yeah, I I, I do always correct it I I'm amazed at how common this is that how many adults will happily claim that a spider is an insect banging.

Count the legs OK. Kind events. It's very simple. If they have six, it's an insect. If you have hate, it's an arachnid. Yes, yeah, but it's it's amazing. So happens actually.

Yeah, so it's a bit of a pet peeve. Is it when people do that?

I I tend to not get too het up about it now I know but but I was correct. Somebody in the nicest possible way, yes.

Actually on another non insects topic from moment one of the universities they were asking for people's names for woodlice piece. It seems all over the UK.

They have a name. So yeah, buddy Tracy.

And things, yeah.

Yeah, so you obviously you would say the proper glass in name, but do you have a name that you?

Would call the mum would listen, I mean I mean would lyses is the most common of the common names for.

Me yeah.

I suppose, I suppose.

Yes, we had cheesy bugs as well, which my mum used to call them.

Cheesy bugs, yeah.

Course is one of the problems with.

Using English common names is an particularly in plants because common hedgerow plant may have 20 or 30 names, depending on where you are in the UK, you know. So if you go to some part countries say I am looking for some softer, but everything of what what you talking about?

Lobster mocking number. They I see you have some there no no there granny's bonnets. None other. Not so. Of course, Lenes came up with it with the plans so that everything had a proper scientific name that there was the end of confusion. So he brought order to Ricky chaotic world.

Yeah, should be able to understand which plants are which for which animals are which is so important.

Or kind of you.

It is interesting that taxonomy which is is often regarded by the young people today as being rather dull, and Ryan Brian Boring. Of course it isn't. It said it's a critical critical thing, because if you don't know what you've got in your hand or what you're comparing things to with, you know how.

How can you?

Achieve any science you need to know what the things are.

Yeah, if you don't know what they are, you can't say that that's the same plant. Is this? So that's the same in sectors that how can you build any expertise you know? So it's it's. It's a critical science. It's a very.

You know?

It's it's Lee corners stone of of all sciences.

So you you really ought to learn you mean bugs, basically.

How many million was there another?

There is between 8 to 10 million, probably but a million described the UK has about 21,000 space news.

Which is quite a lot. I mean I I I don't know all of them by any means, and you know that. But there are individual experts who are experts in horse flies or bees or dung beetles. Or whatever you know. And I know few 100 species is quite enough.

From one individual, yes. But we we we do need experts and that of course is a great advantage of Twitter, which I know on. I've been on it for about four years and originally I thought, which is a bit of a wasted time doing way, you know. But actually you meet an incredible number of reallly passionate individuals who are real experts. And of course, if I find something that I'm not quite sure about, I can find an expert in, you know, seconds.

Image online and OC. Oh yes, it's a. It's a bloody bloody blah now which is fantastic.

Yes, amazing company resource is after that few times with a couple of spiders or different. Since I know you have places, a tweet and like the British Spider Foundation I can get there called and they have helped home. I didn't wear an alikuwa entomologist.

Tickle SoC yes, yeah, I'd be a yes, no, absolutely brilliant. And that's that's the only way you'll learn is from other experts. And of course, in the days before the Internet.

You might meet a couple of experts.

You know at all times, but now you've got.

Easy contact with a whole army of experts who, if they've got the time and they've got the interest.

Will share with you their expertise and an I always try to help. I mean I always try if I'm asked my opinion I will always try and help him if I don't know what something is I will pass it on to.

An individual who I know will help.

With our podcast that we're doing, and we're not experts in anything, but we're doing it to try and be curious and.

Well, maybe the first proper interview we've done, so thank you very much so it's amazing to actually be able to speak to somebody who is knowledgeable in a field and his passion. At least it's it's really inspiring and it kind of gets you thinking. So yeah that. However, the Internet on Twitter and things like that, and they build this communication is fantastic.

Solutely has I mean, I mean, I when I was Anton's hii pretty well was on my own. I mean obviously at school I could I could speak to my biology.

Man.

Teacher who was obviously interested, but other than that there wasn't really me. I knew particularly.

So, so it is incredibly useful now. I have a question for Anton. So Anton, you're at school and your year what year? Yes six yes six. So what do you think you will be doing? Say in the next 10 years? How old will you be in 10 years?

20

20 so. 20 What do you think you'll be doing?

I'm not sure completely, but I I kind of want to become an author, maybe because I like writing. Maybe I'll do a little bit and look into insects as well.

The bug.

You got the bug. Well I'm yeah. I mean absolutely. I mean when I was your age I didn't find anything else interesting. He said what I could find outdoors. I mean to me that the outside natural world was.

Everything I mean, obviously there was history in this art and mathematics and physics, some of which I find mildly interesting. But you know, the rock pool are woodland that that was it for me. And Dan, I haven't changed that. I haven't found these things to be not as interesting as they were found to be.

Equally invite extra interesting.

So I hope I will continue to find a knew things about the world. Well folks, I will and you've got it all ahead of you. You lucky chap. Yes yeah.

And he said, where did you grow up? And was it somewhere where there was a lot of kind of woodland or not? There's.

Really no, I I I grew up in Edinburgh.

So it's not as warm as it is in, you know.

But yesterday there was the Highlands and there was a little box and then.

And the shoreline, of course, which is all well great. But I I didn't.

I wouldn't say they that growing up in a major urban area exposed due to the huge amount of wildlife.

Pavement or something? Maybe some ants on the pavement or something.

Yeah, only heaps of vans everywhere and you could. I mean the thing about insect is that although we know pretty much the entire thorner of the UK and we know what they do vaguely are, they have rules of the carnivals in the, you know, whatever we we don't know the details of what they all do exactly.

So there's exactly masses of work to find out and say that you an average 10 year old child, could make an you.

Observation, but that hadn't been done by anybody else before in a garden or accomplish. See if they just applied themselves. There is masses to finance.

The answer is pretty goods at being curious and wanting to examine things and learn by things difficult today with a lot of kids spend too much time.

Playing games or watching TV don't have it's more problem than it used to be, or just every parent feels that and how we can kind of engage them and encouraged abit more curiosity.

Yeah, well, you know the.

Take them outside, go outside as much you can get, you know, find wild habitats. Find good habitats on small habitat shoreline, woodland, hilltop Moreland for whatever.

Engage yourself with it. I mean, I, I I know there are a lot of kids who spend a lot of their time in dark and road playing.

Whatever the games are these days, fortnight, or some other hideous thing.

I just can't see the account, see.

The point in that you're not learning anything about the real world you're learning about somebody else's imagination.

That passion you actually put this fictional thing. Yeah, altogether, yeah, I I would.

You know, I would sooner say I know the behaviour and the cycles of every British earwig

fruit fly or cricket. Yeah then saying I have got the fastest everytime to kill how many other individuals it is in a in a war game. I mean it doesn't make make any sense to me.

At all, yeah.

Exactly something I said sometime before as well is through light off talk about things, so if you visit somewhere in the world, if your city, your country, just knowing its history and about it's gonna make it so much more interesting.

Rather, just getting the tourists. Actually, if you can engage and go okay, this is there something that happened or it's that knowledge on anything in sex history?

You you can't make.

People interested, I mean either interested or the not. Yeah and if they are interested in it, Anton is clearly interested in the natural world, which is great. You don't have to try that hard, but you do have to make sure that Anton gets to go to interesting places because obviously you don't have a car yet. Or you can set aside. Although the island where you are is, it's fantastic it's got.

It's got some great habitat. Of course, it's very overbuilt now. Yes, and but you know, I could. I spend a week every so often on Alderley, an an I adore. All this is a very nice habitats and nice coastal stuff an I could spend a day just walking on the coast path there just looking at all the animals and plants and and finding out that you know.

Can I name all the plants? At least? I mean, am I able to name all the pads an amazing thing at Oxford where I taught for 25 years. The first year students actually.

Were pretty poor at.

Natural History, they they didn't really seem to know very much about.

Trees in the UK? I mean, I think very few of them could name and recognise 5 British trees.

And I'm going.

Why are you doing biology?

You can't name 5 British trees. Yeah and.

Wait?

My parents they were missed. When is Anton's Age UK for a lot of walks on the island and and they were like very good with naming all the plants and the trees and the part that entry. I've got a terrible memory for names. I always forgets I need to keep refreshing myself so I can train pass it onto Anton again. It's it's just late, it's so much better if you can. If you know these things and you can experience them.

But it it can go wrong the other way, so I can remember lots of big long names for plants and animals. In fact hundreds of thousands of them, but I can't remember my kids birthdays.

I get into trouble for this.

Oh is it? Is it your birthday?

Call Dad if I was a spider, you'd remember.

What is your funniest moments that you've had?

Maybe it was like an encounter with I don't know an orangutan because we watch something with that or well.

The one that they showed just last week at on Sunday with the mattress and I was helping the release of a few of these orangutans.

And what one of the slightly older ones called Julius was very naughty? Also playing the game at all? Basically because I was very hot and sweaty and salt of course is wonderful man. Ohh yeah yeah, so he realised I was trying to.

Encourage him up into the tree coz if they can't climb trees and find food, they won't survive in the wild. So he discovered there cause my face was really quiet.

He then tried to get my baby trying to suck my eye and he was very strong, arms very strong, even a young one is stronger than I am and he was trying to lick my eye socket and I thought my God I'm gonna lose my eye here. So I was trying to it while still speaking to camera get my hand between his lips and my eye socket so that I could get him on.

Musing in retrospect.

Yeah, at the time now is measured and facts of his wild animal and say powerful.

Slightly slightly unnerving, yeah, yeah. I mean I know that there are lots people say we shouldn't interact with primates like this.

They are so human they are so like us they.

Always when it was looking at you when you were teaching how to eat, I mean.

To me.

Honey, you you just get home melts? Yeah smell.

And you realise the terrible state therein and terrible.

Trouble that we have brought about by growing palm oil and this is a flat that there's only been industrialise for about 50 years. So when it when I was a kid nobody used Palmer. Does any palm oil in food or soaps or detergents? But because it was found in West Africa and it grows very readily anywhere and it produces a huge amount of fruit with very high grade edible oil.

It's um, it's just grown in huge amounts in Indonesia, Malaysia, and of course they cut down for it.

And that's that's it. And so now probably one item in five that you buy.

In any outlet.

Shop any supermarket will have palm oil in it.

No, you know I got. I don't know what the the the answer is, but the way things are going.

It's all about money. Everything is about money. It's about shareholders. It's about profits, and I get totally beside myself when people continue to talk about economic growth.

You can't have economic growth forever. Not on a small, not on a finite world with a finite amount of stuff.

At some point you will have to not have growth.

Exactly.

Heaps of this stuff that we make to buy stuff.

That we don't actually need.

Exactly, yeah, it's just rampant and it seems I don't know if it's filling something that people are missing. If they feel that there's.

A harnessing the natural world.

I see I read about. I think it's in Japan or maybe South Korea. There's ideas of making forest and forest bathing and spending time there in the natural environment.

That ideas been around for awhile an it is we've become so divorced from the real world as I said.

But yes, you you you do I I will say whatever problems I've got. Whatever heartaches I've got.

An hour walk in a forest and if you don't feel better at the end of it.

I'd be amazed.

Yeah, definitely that's something I found actually having Anton bees and starting to actually go out more again then just walking and exploring like the environment and the cliffs. Just how beautiful is actually you do? You can stand there and look at it. It's just wonderful.

Absolutely, absolutely absolutely.

Yeah is it. Is it half term there?

Um, yeah it is. I'm really excited for it.

You're you're off for a week now.

Is it? Yep, and it's in my mum's birthday. Join the half term so we really fun, yes.

And what are you going to do when you have them?

He might do some of my hobbies because I like making little plastic models.

Please game.

Play some games and go outside.

Yes, I'm glad you got the final one in there, yes.

Came back onto insects for a bit.

Do you like Oldham sex? I mean things like parasites I.

I think a lot of people are going to be really adverse to them, but I guess they're just living their life only.

You can't pick and choose yes.

I think he's too large, he said what?

We try to do we like nature, as long as it's on our.

Terms yes you.

Know you don't want horseflies. We don't want mosquitoes. We don't want anything that sucks out blood, but we quite like fluffy things and we fight like birds. As long as they don't.

You know, poo on your house? Yeah, exactly exactly right. So I I just think we we have a very bizarre view of the natural world and what we have to do is to accept that we are a part of the natural world and we are here because of the natural world. We are not in control of our laws. We imagine we are yes, so I find the cycles that you find.

Life cycles of Wasps and other things that attack other things and eat them inside. It's fascinating, it's fascinating, and it's not. It's not gruesome, particularly.

It's just anyway that can evolve for an Organism to survive.

Now, there are some pretty weird ways of doing it, yes.

Is it warm where you are? I asked you before.

Yeah.

The moment.

So are you not having a swim come on?

Surely face mask and snorkel Shirley.

Ohh I do have a snorkel. I might go swimming. Actually it might be a nice birthday present for my mum.

Yeah.

Wet suits you know. And yeah, and you know if you if you have a simple website so you can spend an hour and easy.

Wonderful, I been here.

And different world down there as well.

Interesting, yeah.

If you could visit anytime or place in history and in the world.

And where would it be? Would it be maybe 300,000,000 years ago when you had?

Less time, yes. There be several places in their history that I would like to visit. One would be the early period when arthropods first eventually came from the sea onto land. Yeah, but much more than that, about 350,000,000 years. A bullet in the swampy.

Forests of the Carboniferous. That will be amazing coz insects were quite large. Then someone had a wingspan upset of, you know.

Fatso size, you know?

I I would love to go back then and just record all the stuff that we can only think about and said we have a few. Obviously a few remains of insects from that.

Carboniferous. There you go.

I actually was reading article about that and I think it was like a giant like centipede or millipede and the footprints are preserved in the rock. And yeah, like massive.

Yeah, I, I think there's a trail of them on the Isle of Arran. Actually, okay, there's there's there's a trail there.

And they were big that they were, you know.

Yeah.

Do you think you'll be picking one of these up and coming again?

That's amazing, let's see good.

What was your most dangerous encounter and was it with insects?

No, just snake. Actually the most dangerous and kind of was when we were filming the dark, so we made it very hard for ourselves. Only film things and at night, which is very difficult to face and I was doing a forest walk and I saw something move under a palm leaf, which I thought was interesting. So I said to the camera and director. I think there's something under this leaflet said. Let's have a look. I'm not daft so I use this stick about this long.

And under under this leave was affaire de Los Snake, which is one of the most dangerous snakes in South America, is responsible for a lot of very nasty bites, and they don't like being, you know, they they don't like having a head torch shone in their face, and this thing was about three times longer than my stick. You know, if not more so. I I very gingerly replaced the leaf.

And backed off to which her cameraman said we.

Can't see the snake anymore, Georgia.

Said yeah, and you won't be saying it, you won't be seeing you tonight.

We were.

A fairly long way from anywhere levelling a hospital, you know, so yeah, had it gone off to my nose.

I would have eaten the the enzymes of the saliva of the bite actually eat away the flesh so you have.

Just made all your face.

Yes, master is very along better.

Close it didn't happen, but.

Yeah yeah cause yeah moment.

He did, yeah, I I I had some dreams after that.

Yeah, I'm surprised.

How do you find gonna when you are in the middle of the rainforest? Do you feel really comfortable there now in terms of sleeping is it doesn't feel natural?

Always have done an, you know did very important to get your hammock right to get it off the ground and get it under a tarpaulin and and lies you.

You keep that.

Bit dry as dry as you can.

Hewitt I it's. It's a very comfortable place and and.

Okay, can be a.

Bit noisier ghost. But I enjoy the noise and if you don't enjoy just get ear plugs.

No, I'm in always when you're in the jungle, you bell end the day you're very tired.

Anyway, so you just sleep like a log like a log after I come back from a trip like that. I find it too quiet.

In the UK.

To quiet the quiet yeah.

Anything else going to ask Anton?

Not really, I think we got all our questions answered.

Yeah, thank you very much. It's been absolute pleasure speaking to you.

Thank you and I hope you have a wonderful half term holiday.

Thank you bye bye.

Wow, that was amazing I.

Was so good. Yeah amazing.

Can't really put into words how awesome that was. I had a great time chatting with George there. Absolutely lovely guy and.

Yeah, blame.

Our first proper interview sorry. Conquer cup.

Yes, Yep, so we made the big time now.

And once again, thank you to George for coming on the show and chatting to us. Like really, really good.

Anyway, so now that you've listened to that and you realise how awesome it was, I think it would be quite good if you could review us. We actually had a few reviews recently, one in Romania, which I'm going to read out now, and it's from Russia for.

And it goes cool show. I really love the family support such imaginative and creative content. So thank you very much for that five star review on Apple Podcasts. If they can do it, so can you. And we actually reached number 18 in the Romanian History Podcast charts.

Yeah, we are top stuff we are.

So we would like some reviews may be in other places in the world. Thank you. And where can they do that, Anton?

At Apple Podcasts and then use the other ones I've forgotten.

Yeah, we can review us on.

Chaser or podbean or anyway you get your podcasts and please also follow us on social media or get in touch and we can they find us at.

Curie child pod.

Yeah, that's on Twitter Facebook, and Instagram. You can also visit the QST of a child. This is our website christopherchild.com. Sorry it's our website.

But we also have a YouTube channel now, which I think we forgot to mention in their last episode. Yes, which is the curiosity of a child on YouTube and I've also got my gaming channel.

Which one has more subscribers it?

Does you doing much better with your gaming?

Channel I've been telling my friends so I guess yes.

It was a very proud to be part of the that's not Canon podcast network, and we're going to introduce another show. You should listen to and afterwards called what's it called?

Now that's interesting.

Yeah, cause that's interesting. Really, really good. And I've listened to a few of their episodes and it's well worth a listen because it's not too heavy on the science. It's kind of a mix of kind of philosophy and the way people think and explore saw the episode I listened to was about why people believe the Earth is flat, and it doesn't just say that they are.

Some people as he starts talking about. Why do people have these beliefs? Such really good. So let's listen to the trailer.

Hopefully it doesn't fancy your brains.

Hi, I'm Travis and.

I'm search and we are the hosts of now that's interesting podcast.

Here we talk about the topics that catch our interest and hopefully spark your curiosity to dig deeper into the world around you.

We go into enough detail to get a better understanding of the topic.

Recover, say just.

A bit above your average pub chat.

But we talk about everything from conspiracy theories here on Earth to Rovers on Mars.

Nothing in between.

Find us on whichever platform you get your podcast fix.

So make sure you checkout now, that's interesting. Wherever you listen to your podcasts, I think that's a wrap with the.

Show when you get one.

Today was amazing. I hope you enjoyed it and we'll see you next time.

Yeah, so thank you very much and goodbye I.

Love you.